Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY/BARRY LYNDON/THE SHINING
AKIRA
ALIENS
BARTON FINK/NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN/RAISING ARIZONA
DAYS OF HEAVEN
DEAD MAN
FIRE WALK WITH ME/MULHOLLAND DRIVE/THE ELEPHANT MAN
JACOB'S LADDER
KISS ME DEADLY
MAD MAX: FURY ROAD
OVER THE EDGE
RIVER'S EDGE
TAXI DRIVER
THE THING
ZODIAC
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

Post by LateReg »

In total, all great picks and suggestions here so far. I'm delighted by the Dune mentions in the top 5 Lynches. I always place it #10 by default, but I've always thought it was a good movie with some of the most imaginative sci-fi sequences ever filmed; over the past few years, its yielded greater rewards on rewatch than some other "better" Lynch films, which in turn always has me more and more excited for a rewatch.

A few things I wanted to comment on, starting with:
AXX°N N. wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:24 pm
04. The Mirror (Tarkovsky)
03. Nymphomaniac (Director's Cut; Trier)
02. Inland Empire
01. Synecdoche, NY (Kaufman)
I just wanted to note what a fascinating top four this is, as all are films about revelation...the mind revealing itself to itself. As a side-note, I'm glad to see Nymphomaniac listed as I have always been confused by its "minor" reception and have predicted that it would one day be regarded as von Trier's magnum opus -- an easy thing to say about it given its length and autobiographical content (which continued into The House that Jack Built).

AXX°N N. wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:24 pm
A separate smaller list for animation:

02. End of Evangelion (ending to the series Neon Genesis Evangelion; Anno)
Excellent animation choices, but I just wanted to highlight this one because there's nothing else like it and its animation's Fire Walk With Me and I think about it all the time. Even its existence is an odd miracle of circumstance.

As for some animation that is highly original but also really Lynchian (amongst many other things), I'm wondering if anyone has seen The Wolf House? I just caught up to it last night. Truly excellent.

AXX°N N. wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 2:24 pm
A film I can't say is good but admire and feel is essential viewing because it's unique in its failures; Southland Tales.
Bravo for this. Again, there's nothing else like this allusive, reference-heavy, pop-culture cum political satire, sci-fi amalgamation and even fewer films of such prescience and risky, swing-way-past-the-fences ambition, right down to its inspired casting. It's rare that the real world itself (as opposed to the critical sphere/movie-watching world) has to catch up with a film, but that's definitely the case with Southland Tales. I watched the original Cannes cut again just a few days ago (my preferred cut, as it has a stronger continuous atmosphere), and it just seems like America is doing its un-levelheaded best to resemble the wacky movie. Also, while Richard Kelly is obviously a Lynch devotee and has admitted as much and even included a couple references to Mulholland Drive in Southland Tales, I believe that in certain sequences of this film he is one of the few directors that is able to actually conjure a more purely Lynchian atmosphere, which is quite impressive, especially in a movie as varied and chaotic and original as Southland Tales.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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I just realized we basically just started creating these hap'sdineresque lists here instead at the Hap's Diner and adding them the "Peaks fans" prefix because, well, they're simply more visible here :D

Anyway, I just made my contribution à propos favorite directors to the already extant thread at the Hap's Diner, so I'm inviting everyone to list their favorite directors there too.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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LateReg wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:01 amI just wanted to note what a fascinating top four this is, as all are films about revelation...the mind revealing itself to itself. As a side-note, I'm glad to see Nymphomaniac listed as I have always been confused by its "minor" reception and have predicted that it would one day be regarded as von Trier's magnum opus -- an easy thing to say about it given its length and autobiographical content (which continued into The House that Jack Built).
Oh wow. Your armchair analysis is completely spot on. It's something I've noticed about myself and the things I'm drawn to over time. There's something so beautiful to me about reminiscence, the particular state one finds themself in where memories stop feeling like parts of ourselves and more like things that are alive and calling to us. The short I linked for instance is Godard taking the technique he developed for Histoire(s) du cinema and applying it to his own films, so that it becomes like a dying vision where his career is revealing itself to itself. Memory and obsessive memory is a theme I can't shake.

I've also always felt that about Nymphomaniac; in fact I was on Trier's wiki page the other day and found it so out of whack with how I feel that Nymphomaniac isn't listed in the sidebar under 'notable work.' When you tilt sideways and look at the nymphomania subject as a magic eye that reveals itself to really be about alcoholism & depression, it's for sure his most personal work.
LateReg wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:01 amExcellent animation choices, but I just wanted to highlight this one because there's nothing else like it and its animation's Fire Walk With Me and I think about it all the time. Even its existence is an odd miracle of circumstance.
And I've also always compared these two. :) Especially because EoE is a sequel in many diverse ways, including as a continuation of a story and of characters, but also in a more abstract sense, a self-reflection on its own awareness as a phenomenon in the real world.
LateReg wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:01 amBravo for this. Again, there's nothing else like this allusive, reference-heavy, pop-culture cum political satire, sci-fi amalgamation and even fewer films of such prescience and risky, swing-way-past-the-fences ambition, right down to its inspired casting. It's rare that the real world itself (as opposed to the critical sphere/movie-watching world) has to catch up with a film, but that's definitely the case with Southland Tales. I watched the original Cannes cut again just a few days ago (my preferred cut, as it has a stronger continuous atmosphere), and it just seems like America is doing its un-levelheaded best to resemble the wacky movie. Also, while Richard Kelly is obviously a Lynch devotee and has admitted as much and even included a couple references to Mulholland Drive in Southland Tales, I believe that in certain sequences of this film he is one of the few directors that is able to actually conjure a more purely Lynchian atmosphere, which is quite impressive, especially in a movie as varied and chaotic and original as Southland Tales.
I also prefer the Cannes cut. My problems with it stem from the unfortunate choice taken to bend to pressure and recut, but also just the idea of pushing so much of its narrative off-screen, which Kelly has pinpointed as a regret on his part. It's what they call "a glorious mess." And yeah, it was absolutely weirdly predictive, which is funny because at the time its political sensibilities were called ridiculous, shallow, convoluted etc. as ways to disregard it as uninformed and inaccurate, but reality has since (as you say) caught up and proved him spot-on. :)
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Interesting notions about Nymphomaniac. I'm just in the process of watching everything Lars von Trier ever made (I just watched Dogville on Monday, and will probably watch Manderlay today or tomorrow). I have seen Nymphomaniac back when it came out, and I remember appreciating it as a work of art, but somewhat disliking the overall vulgarity and cynicism of it, especially regarding the second film. To be clear, I am all for cynicism, misanthropy, nihilism, etc., etc. - a large portion of my own work so far was made in that vein - but with von Trier, and especially Nymphomaniac, I feel like he makes people, and by extension the world, seem unrealistically horrible. I suppose that might be due to his own perception of the world, his depression, and other personal factors, but sometimes it just seems forced. The world of Nymphomaniac felt ugly as rarely any film I have ever seen has (Gaspar Noé comes to mind, and maybe Larry Clark's Ken Park. Great films, by the way.)

I could apply the same thing to Dogville. I loved the film, and would include it among my top 3 or 4 of his, but again, it just seems too much that the whole town / village could be so horrible and rotten. I'm aware we are not talking about a director confined to the obligations of any kind of realism, quite the contrary. He is definitely a provocateur and loves to shock people, which can be good, even great, but in his case it sometimes feels a bit forced. However, I have to give him kudos for making me cheer at the end of the film. I'm almost never for any kind of vengeance, not even in the fictional works, but if someone had it coming, it were the townsfolk of Dogville. When I realized who James Caan's character was, I anticipated the eventual ending of the film, and I was not disappointed.

Anyway, I am planning to see everything from Manderlay to Nymphomaniac sometime soon, even the films I have already seen, so maybe I will reevaluate my opinion. (I have seen The House That Jack Built recently, so I might skip it this time.) Another potentially relevant fact is that I did not see the director's cut of Nymphomaniac, only the shorter version (which is not short).
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Stavrogyn wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:34 am Interesting notions about Nymphomaniac. I'm just in the process of watching everything Lars von Trier ever did (I just watched Dogville on Monday, and will probably watch Manderlay today or tomorrow). I have seen Nymphomaniac back when it came out, and I remember appreciating it as a work of art, but somewhat disliking the overall vulgarity and cynicism of it, especially regarding the second film. To be clear, I am all for cynicism, misanthropy, nihilism, etc., etc. - a large portion of my own work so far was made in that vein - but with von Trier, and especially Nymphomaniac, I feel like he makes people, and by extension the world, seem unrealistically horrible. I suppose that might be due to his own perception of the world, his depression, and other personal factors, but sometimes it just seems forced. The world of Nymphomaniac felt ugly as rarely any film I have ever seen has (Gaspar Noé comes to mind, and maybe Larry Clark's Ken Park. Great films, by the way.)

I could apply the same thing to Dogville. I loved the film, and would include it among my top 3 or 4 of his, but again, it just seems too much that the whole town / village could be so horrible and rotten. I'm aware we are not talking about a director confined to the obligations of any kind of realism, quite the contrary. He is definitely a provocateur and loves to shock people, which can be good, even great, but in his case it sometimes feels a bit forced. However, I have to give him kudos for making me cheer at the end of the film. I'm almost never for any kind of vengeance, not even in the fictional works, but if someone had it coming, it were the townsfolk of Dogville. When I realized who James Caan's character was, I anticipated the eventual ending of the film, and I was not disappointed.

Anyway, I am planning to see everything from Manderlay to Nymphomaniac sometime soon, even the films I have already seen, so maybe I will reevaluate my opinion. (I have seen The House That Jack Built recently, so I might skip it this time.) Another potentially relevant fact is that I did not see the director's cut of Nymphomaniac, only the shorter version (which is not short).
I think you're right about all that and you're right to wrestle with it. However, in the specific case of Dogville, I think that it is pure metaphor/parable and doesn't pretend to be anything else, and, along with its bitingly satirical edge, that's why it fully works. As for Nymphomaniac, Axxon fleshed out what I meant about it being autobiography - the film is best seen through the prism of von Trier's own pathology, compulsions and addictions rather than as a strict study of nymphomania. And yes, the Director's Cut makes a big difference, adding roughly 90 minutes of footage, including a key shot that practically spells out that the film is about von Trier as his camera is deliberately shown reflected in a mirror (during a conversation about how mirrors are like thoughts). There's a lot more to the Director's Cut--more beauty, more despair, more abstractions and illustrations and the joy of filmmaking (another reason I predict Nymphomaniac to rise in the ranks is because it's probably von Trier's most bottomless, playfully filmmaker-ly film)--which is not to say that it ends any differently, as it still goes straight down that rabbit hole into a horrible ending, but along with smoother storytelling there's also a much better sense of its true purpose and psychology. The dueling personas/psychologies of the co-leads and the gender reversals are especially interesting when thought of in terms of it all being about the director.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Stavrogyn wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:34 amAnother potentially relevant fact is that I did not see the director's cut of Nymphomaniac, only the shorter version (which is not short).
Could be, I actually didn't care for Nymphomaniac when I saw the cut versions. When I saw the director's cuts, though, it completely changed things for me, and I found myself re-evaluating far before the credits rolled. LateReg covered a lot of why I think the uncut version is superior, but I will add a few things.

The main thing that gets cut down aside from explicit sex and violence are wordy digressions, but to me the digressions are the film--the challenge of the content and the duration in which you share in it feels like an important part of experiencing it from an emotional standpoint.

As for the explicit sequences, in a paradoxical way the most extreme of them are the most empathetic, you could even say affirmational. Certain omitted high impact scenes affect pain in the main character (and by extension the audience) that is far from the strict definition of 'gratuitous,' in that the pain carries narrative and thematic weight. A certain sense of affliction and exultation is lost in trimming it down; even though the film is about addiction and the idea of catharsis through pain is explored through the literalism of BDSM, the story and especially the effect the story has are religious in nature, in the sense that you can say religion follows the same principle of transcendence through pain (ala Jesus, flagellation, walking on hot coals, etc.), and given the confessional framing device. When that pain is missing or watered down, the idea is basically non-functioning in the structure of the film itself.

From the stand-point of autobiography it's exhaustively all-inclusive. Despite whatever one makes of Trier's perspective for its own sake, Nymphomaniac is a totally honest expression of it.

I don't disagree with you by the way that the misanthropy in his films can seem forced, it's something that I have ups and downs with depending on the film. I actually didn't like The House That Jack Built so much because I felt it lacked imagination in terms of how much credit it gives to the potential for human kindness. In many ways I feel like it's a lesser Nymphomaniac, and that its autobiographical conceit (artist-as-killer) doesn't hold enough water as a central metaphor, no matter how many digressions try to justify it.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Looks like I seriously need to catch up on my von Trier. I only ever saw Riget (a masterpiece) and Melancholia (very good) out of his opus, and going by the things I'm reading here, I'm missing out! Any appreciators of his early flick Europa (1991)? Its description intrigued me very much way back in the day (Udo Kier and Ernst-Hugo Jaregard on the cast list are a recommendation all by itself), but I never got around to checking it out.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Antichrist was the last von Trier film I watched. I remember seeing it in the theater. I think the negative press he got over the years took it's toll on me. I remember Bjork was metoo'ing him at one point, the holocaust comments etc. I'll have to go back and see which films I missed.

I liked The Boss of it All. I thought it was very funny.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Europa is interesting, though it wouldn't crack my top 5 Von Trier films. It's a bit too pastichey in style for my tastes. Worth seeing once, though.

If by "holocaust comments" you mean the Cannes Q&A where he said "I understand Hitler" and "I'm a Nazi," that was IMHO blown entirely out of proportion: watching the clip places those comments in context as self-deprecating gallows humor occasioned by his recollection of learning as an adult that he did not (as he had previously believed) have any Jewish ancestry, but rather that his biological father had been a non-Jewish German who had lived through the Nazi era and presumably had supported the Nazis. It should have been possible to express disapproval of comments without making it sound as though LVT had intended them sincerely or unironically, but of course because the latter approach is more sensationalistic, that's the way that much of the media coverage I saw tried to spin it.

I find the accusations by Bjork far more serious. One month after she went public, nine female former employees came forward to reveal the pervasive culture of harassment at Zentropa, the production studio cofounded by LVT and Peter Aalbæk Jensen, producer of LVT's film with Bjork (Dancer in the Dark). Jensen then publicly admitted that the company's "alternative work culture" included spankings of trainees; if they refused a spanking from him, trainees were offered the alternative of cleaning out the stables at his farm.

Zentropa issued a statement in response to the revelations, virtuously pledging that from then forward "it will not be a part of Zentropa's culture to give or receive a smack as either reward or punishment." Jensen admitted sometimes having "gone too far," and in the next breath insisted, "But the question is whether you are an adored leader or not. And I am an adored leader."

Mind you, that particular round of accusations did not directly name LVT, but LVT has made all of his films since the mid-'90s with Jensen and Zentropa, including Dancer, and just a month earlier Jensen had been vocal in publicly denying Bjork's allegations against LVT; Jensen had claimed that he and Von Trier were actually "the victims" in that case. He is still a producer at Zentropa.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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yeah, im aware that Fox News blew the nazi comments at the Cannes Q &A stuff out of proportion, I looked at the clips at the time, but i just wound up losing motivation to watch his films. anytime I brought his name up in public and Id say I liked Breaking the Waves, co workers and people would give me so much grief and tell me how horrible he is. they got so upset, i was like ok, fuck it, whatever.

I liked the photography in Europa. I think Michael Elphick from Elephant Man was in it.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Agent Earle wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 4:29 am Looks like I seriously need to catch up on my von Trier. I only ever saw Riget (a masterpiece) and Melancholia (very good) out of his opus, and going by the things I'm reading here, I'm missing out! Any appreciators of his early flick Europa (1991)? Its description intrigued me very much way back in the day (Udo Kier and Ernst-Hugo Jaregard on the cast list are a recommendation all by itself), but I never got around to checking it out.
Agent Earle, you are definitely missing out! Von Trier has recently made my top 10 directors list, and is slowly nearing the top 5, so, as you have advised me in the TV version of this thread - where you said that I should start exploring David Simon's work as soon as possible - I have to say the same thing to you regarding Lars von Trier! :D

(I also have to start watching Riget the moment I rewatch The Depression Trilogy.)

Regarding Europa: the film's greatest strength, at least for me, is its aesthetic aspect, especially the use of background projections with other characters in front of them, and interacting with them, its black and white cinematography, its film noir feel at some points, and so on. It is among my least favorite von Trier films, but he never made a bad film, so definitely still worth a watch. (And since we are discussing his early work: I very much enjoyed Epidemic, from 1987.)

-----

AXX°N N and LateReg: your views on Nymphomaniac are more than interesting, and are making me even more eager to rewatch the film. I was planning to do it anyway, and I had the director's cut in mind, but now I will watch it through much broader perspective.

On a side note, I watched Manderlay yesterday - and loved it. I knew that the film was made in a similar vein as Dogville, but I did not expect it to be a direct continuation - and was it, really? [The two main characters being played by different actors (Nicole Kidman / Bryce Dallas Howard, and James Caan / Willem Dafoe), as well as Grace Mulligan embarking on such a venture after the events of Dogville, which doesn't feel very plausible, these things make it feel like a standalone film to me.] However, even though I still consider Dogville superior, I have to admit that perhaps I enjoyed Manderlay a bit more - partly because of its shorter length, partly because I liked Dallas Howard's performance / presence more than Kidman's, and partly because it does not paint such a horrible picture of human beings in general as many of von Trier's films do. Yes, the situation the people in the film are living in is quite horrible, and yes, the outcome of the story isn't nearly positive; however, it is all about the situation these characters are in, the historical and social context, the consequences of hundreds of years of unfathomable injustice, but not the individual characters themselves: I did not feel any of them were rotten and despicable as characters often tend to be in von Trier's films. Maybe that's what made it more appealing to me: the film and its message were powerful, but the message was made even stronger by coming from a story about characters that seem more human and realistic - even though the actual plot of the film, at least its premise, is quite preposterous.

It was somewhat warmer than I would expect from von Trier, all the while mostly in line with what I would expect of him regarding his common thematic and aesthetic elements.
JackwithOneEye wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 5:46 am I liked The Boss of it All. I thought it was very funny.
This is the last Lars von Trier feature film I am yet to see for the first time, and I will watch it sometime during the next four days. Will comment afterwards.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Stavrogyn wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 8:49 am On a side note, I watched Manderlay yesterday - and loved it. I knew that the film was made in a similar vein as Dogville, but I did not expect it to be a direct continuation - and was it, really? [The two main characters being played by different actors (Nicole Kidman / Bryce Dallas Howard, and James Caan / Willem Dafoe), as well as Grace Mulligan embarking on such a venture after the events of Dogville, which doesn't feel very plausible, these things make it feel like a standalone film to me.] However, even though I still consider Dogville superior, I have to admit that perhaps I enjoyed Manderlay a bit more...
Manderlay is way underappreciated. You might or might not be aware, but it was originally planned to be another of his trilogies--the Land of Opportunities trilogy, all featuring Grace, who would likely have been played by another different actor in the unfinished 'Washington.' Nonetheless, like you say, I think the connection is a spiritual one despite the literally shared character. In fact I think the proposterousness of it is a bit of an intentional goof that never settled into the intended pattern.

--

As for Trier's no-nos as a human being, the big admirer of him that I am, yet also the big Björk admirer that I am, boy was the day she released her open letter a rough one for me. It's worth noting that she herself gave credit to Trier improving in his ways, acknowledging that Kidman and everyone after had different, better experiences. In retrospect the way I think about it all now is the same way I think about Louis C.K.; given the content matter of their material and the kind of personas they project, not to mention problems with compulsion & addiction & depression, nothing about the incidents should have been surprising in the first place, and for me personally it doesn't diminish their art. As for Zentropa and Jensen, the descriptions are bizarre and almost feel like something from a Trier film, and I still don't know how to feel about it.
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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Couldn't do it with TV shows but here's a whole different story. After all I've been a huge cinema-freak for over 30 years.
Let's say the list below is not any valid top-15 of my favourite movies but just - what I'd like to share right here, right now.

8 1/2 (Fellini) - if there's a film I think that might be named The Best in cinema history, it might be this one

Fiddler on the Roof - and if there's a film that I might name My Favourite (Beloved perhaps, I should say?), it might be this one

The order below will be random (and I exclude Lynch, which would be represented at least by Blue Velvet):

Throne in Blood - Kurosawa's samurai interpretation of Macbeth is one of the most unbelievably directed films ever. What an artistic vision!!

Platoon - a film that left me literally speechless for a long time; later it happened to me only once more, with Lost Highway... After many rewatches I still find it to be the best war picture ever - not as impressive, not as deep as some others, but in its simplicity perhaps hitting the point better than any other?

Seventh Seal - I'm sometimes delighted with Bergman's works and sometimes not at all. But this, THIS - an ultimate masterpiece about ultimate matters.

Grave of the Fireflies - possibly the saddest film I've ever seen; at the same time visually stunningly beautiful

Birdman - my personal number one of the XXI century; it's a film about me, I'm afraid - rarely have I felt such a level of identification...

Forrest Gump - this film is perfect for me on every level. I love it and that's a fact :-)

2001: A Space Oddysey - a film of endless interpretation opportunities

The Blues Brothers - a film of endless laugh opportunities; actually I don't really think there is anything funnier in the world for me ;-)

Rio Bravo - it totally refuses to age! And I couldn't NOT include a western in a list like that, and this IS my favourite one, although...

Once Upon a Time in the West - ... this one has perhaps the best cinema scene ever and of course I mean the final duel

Empire of the Sun - actually I couldn't not include Spielberg, either. The older I am, the more I appreciate his work. But Empire... has always been my favourite of his and it survived goodness knows how many times I've watched it.

Last but not least OF COURSE: Star Wars! Obvious. But you wouldn't guess which one is my THE most favourite one, would you?
It's The Revenge of the Sith, yes it is, precious :-)

Oh, so let's add The Two Towerssss to this list but only, definitely and undeniably the Director's version. You cannot cut 45 minutes off a film and expect to get away with it, can you?
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Re: Peaks Fans Top 15 Movies

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BOB1, I have seen most of these films, but not all of them; those that I haven't yet seen I at least know about, and I intend to see them in the future.
BOB1 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:43 pm Throne in Blood - Kurosawa's samurai interpretation of Macbeth is one of the most unbelievably directed films ever. What an artistic vision!!
I have seen Throne of Blood recently, and it made an impression on me too. I was shocked to learn that the ending is basically the same as the finale of Brian De Palma's Scarface. I would probably include it in my top 5 Kurosawa films out of those I have seen so far.
BOB1 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:43 pm Rio Bravo - it totally refuses to age! And I couldn't NOT include a western in a list like that, and this IS my favourite one, although...
We had this discussion on another thread; I was greatly disappointed by this film. It had its moments, and it was entertaining, but I just didn't see anything more to it. (I know I must be in minority regarding this!) Later I saw High Noon, and found it much, much better. (Rio Bravo was made as a response to High Noon.)
BOB1 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:43 pm Last but not least OF COURSE: Star Wars! Obvious. But you wouldn't guess which one is my THE most favourite one, would you?
It's The Revenge of the Sith, yes it is, precious :-)
I have big aesthetic issues with the prequel trilogy - although I find it vastly superior to the sequel trilogy - but if I had to choose one Star Wars film I cared most deeply about when I was a teenager and which still holds a special place in my heart, it would be Revenge of the Sith :D
All those years living the life of someone I didn't even know - Knight of Cups (2015)
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