World of Blue - Archived Forum 2007-2022

Ha. Audrey Horne … and Agent Cooper were two of the best written characters in television history (oh yeah, I’ve down my research back to the early 5Os)). How the creators could constantly write them dumber and dumber after 2.08 takes an excerpt level of skill.

It's in the eye of the beholder. They were progressing towards larger credibility and character maturity as the season progressed, is how I view it.

True, and same with Ben and Catherine and Leo and Bobby and …everyone. There were no stakes (for me) except for a villain cutting out TV Guide promo pictures of the actors and glueing them to a deck of cards.

Cooper’s ingenuity in the first season (bottle throw, deducing James’ bike from the VHS still) and Audrey’s cherry stem were probably the heights of the sly character tricks that ceased to continue.

Referring stritctly to the characters of Cooper and Audrey, I find their much praised portrayals in S 1 as caricature-like, too far removed from real-life people. Cooper was just a collection of quirks and idiosyncracies in S 1, Audrey was an adultish vixen and a weird marriage of 1950s and modern times. As the series progressed, they became much more believable and hence interesting to me. I can't for the life of me imagine how their romance (one of the worst ideas in serial storytelling history) would help salvage a sinking ship of the show like so many claim it would.

Agent Earle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:03 am Referring stritctly to the characters of Cooper and Audrey, I find their much praised portrayals in S 1 as caricature-like, too far removed from real-life people. Cooper was just a collection of quirks and idiosyncracies in S 1, Audrey was an adultish vixen and a weird marriage of 1950s and modern times. As the series progressed, they became much more believable and hence interesting to me. I can't for the life of me imagine how their romance (one of the worst ideas in serial storytelling history) would help salvage a sinking ship of the show like so many claim it would.

I concur. I never had any problem with the character development of Cooper and Audrey. I also think it was a good decision to abandon the idea of their romance and to introduce the character of Annie. I just love the Cooper-Annie (sub)plot and that last batch of episodes in season 2.

Agent Earle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:03 am ...far removed from real-life people... ...quirks and idiosyncracies...

Exactly what I fell in love with. Their otherworldly wit is unparalleled imo

Jasper wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:03 pm P.S. Nice avatar.

Thanks ^^

Soolsma wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:16 am

Agent Earle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:03 am ...far removed from real-life people... ...quirks and idiosyncracies...

Exactly what I fell in love with. Their otherworldly wit is unparalleled imo

And I'm not disputing that. It's what we all fell in love with back then. But this approach could hardly be trusted to sustain the whole series - there's only so many times you can chuckle when hearing a hero say "DAMN fine coffee, and hot!" or stand aghast at his otherworldly deduction techniques. In serious-minded show TP strived to be at the end of the day, the protagonist needs further elaboration and Cooper got one in S2 is what I'm saying.

I guess for me the more realistic it became the less organic it felt. To me, they’re not caricatures, but more stylized. Like in a film Laura or Sunset Boulevard or the countless other things it was inspired by. Only in so that most of the characters are archetypes, and then more effective when it has those fleeting moments of breaking those archetypes… Audrey hiding in the corner crying watching Leland dance comes to mind.

For someone like Audrey, I get no satisfaction of character growth by her simply putting in a suit and suddenly becoming a hotel manager. In real life, good for you, but in a television show it’s all about the inner workings of a character in their blueprint of a story ingredient. If Norm in Cheers realizes he is an alcoholic and should stop going to the bar, good for real life Norm, bad for TV show Cheers. If someone like Audrey is clocking Catherine and Ben burning down the mill, I’m making a note about it and how it’s going to tie in down the line, so there’s a payoff, or James telling Cooper, “Laura said Bobby killed a guy,” it’s all enticing when they boomerang back to us down the line. But when it’s sorta LP case wrapped up, clean slate for everyone, it loses that overlapping fun.

You had all these great dynamics that were just aborted in favor of no stakes. Some wonderful writing and musings about life, but no real tension coming from the characters, only superficial situations. Take for example, Ben and Cooper interacting in early season two. Those scenes are electric and ripe with tension, and a setup that can easily pull through a season.

Even if the show runners got what they wanted in the Audrey/Cooper plot, i would imagine it still would be problematic from a tension point of view. As it is, Annie is written very Audrey like, and Wheeler is written very Cooper like, and we have to sit through all four characters doing the same thing back to back,

Huh, surprising views in this thread so far. I always took it for granted everyone agreed early Cooper & Audrey & their chemistry were undeniably great and full of potential.

@Audrey Horne: Pretty much concur with everything you've said so far.

Agent Earle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:57 am And I'm not disputing that. It's what we all fell in love with back then. But this approach could hardly be trusted to sustain the whole series - there's only so many times you can chuckle when hearing a hero say "DAMN fine coffee, and hot!" or stand aghast at his otherworldly deduction techniques. In serious-minded show TP strived to be at the end of the day, the protagonist needs further elaboration and Cooper got one in S2 is what I'm saying.

I've written paragraphs and paragraphs of analysis on TP but even I'm not liable to call it "serious-minded." Even S3 is overtly silly the entire way through, wrapped around abstract themes and enigmatic directorial experimentation though it is. S2 Cooper doesn't strike me as any more human than S1 Cooper, but perhaps that's because he's taking Earle seriously instead of ridiculously, and all the silly stuff happening around him rubs off, same with Audrey. Even S3 Cooper is silly, yes even his double. The only time TP is "serious" to me is a huge portion of FWWM, Part 8, and Part 18. But even Richard in Part 18 is a mish-mash of archetypes, the cowboy & the detective, the Joseph Campbell hero, etc. I don't think TP segregated camp or arch character details to the first season and left it behind. I think MacLachlan and Fenn and the dialogue just found better grooves over time, which is only natural.

Yeah, it’s all good for everyone. I am not one to debate someone in telling them why they should or should not like. If you find joy in it, that is excellent.

I really bring stuff like this up because it is all part of the fabric of production and has been long and well documented. Writes, directors, actors were frustrated behind the scenes with many portions of the second season because of the whirlwind nature they were caught up in. Most of my feelings or observations are not armchair, Monday morning (thirty thousand Mondays later) quarterbacking, but at lot of my feelings at the time when it was unfolding week to week in real time.

So Twin Peaks is basically a sitcom/parody. Well, you learn something new even after 30 years of fandom

Agent Earle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:23 am So Twin Peaks is basically a sitcom

Episode 19 definitely is imo! (And also bits of 25 as much as I love it, and some other episodes too.)

And there are parts of The Return.... but let's not go there.

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:26 am There were no stakes (for me) except for a villain cutting out TV Guide promo pictures of the actors and glueing them to a deck of cards.

LOL

TV Guide promo pictures and Elmers glue. I can just picture the art department folks working on the props.

If anyone's looking for the missing posts, I moved the few about Bojack Horseman and all the ones about Treme to their own respective threads (links below). Let's try to keep this thread on topic - about Twin Peaks characters.

New Bojack Horseman thread:
http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 86#p131786

New Treme thread:
http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 24#p131824

(The new threads are in Hap's Diner which is the correct place for them. I could have simply moved all the posts into "Peaks Fans Top 10 Shows" here in General - and still can; if anyone would prefer that let me know - but I think they deserve their own threads.)

Jonah wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:06 am (The new threads are in Hap's Diner which is the correct place for them. I could have simply moved all the posts into "Peaks Fans Top 10 Shows" here in General - and still can; if anyone would prefer that let me know - but I think they deserve their own threads.)

Thank you, Jonah, this was a good idea! (I like Hap's Diner and check it regularly.)